Jenny L. M (2024-08-10 13:07:00), category: shamanism

You’re saying that you’re not sure about how this works. Is it possible that your angle is skewed? You’re highlighting your view by using the combustion process of an engine as a model. I know that’s just a way of simplifying your train of thought, but are you sure that your way of trying to understand shamanism is nothing but a Western way of thinking?

Ove (2024-08-10 19:28:04, updated 2024-08-10 19:33:38)

First: That’s not a model, not at all. Using a car engine as a model for this would be insane. And it’s not a simplification, either. I only meant it for what I said: a comparison. Anyway, when it comes to your main question, my response would be: Perhaps, but what difference does it make? Would the answer change anything? I’d say it wouldn’t, for at least two reasons:

1. It doesn’t change the problem. Regardless of why, the fact remains I’m still trying to figure out how this works, and this would not change what it would take to understand how it works.
2. “Thinking” does not determine reality. All these ways of thinking, Eastern and Western, whatever, exist on the same world, Earth. Thus, they must share the same underlying reality, even though you can of course approach this reality in many different ways — and usually have to, because reality can be a rather tricky thing. In fact, there’s not even a standard Western thinking. Here’s a breakdown of the most important Western ways of thinking I know of:
• The materialistic, rather “apatheistic” way of life (not caring about whether there’s a God or not). In this, I include atheists, agnostics, and even many Christians. The only deity actually worshipped, is Mammon (aka money, for those who don’t know). Very science-based otherwise, and thus with a mostly reasonable (but not great) understanding of the material side of reality.
• Active Christianity, i.e., genuinely worshipping and seeking spiritual guidance. Does not acknowledge any other spirits than the one god, and rejects any reality that would contradict their faith. Thus, generally poor understanding of both the material and spiritual side of reality.
• New Age and other forms of paganism (e.g. Wicca) and shamanism. Acknowledges spirits and their power (although attempted explananations may be ad hoc and even contradictory), but tends to have poor understanding of the material side of reality.

And of course, there’s also not a standard Eastern way of thinking, either, although many Eastern approaches have a strong focus on the spiritual self in various ways, in particular about how to develop and improve yourself within some framework (sometimes with the aim of transcending ordinary physical limitations, but usually it’s more about becoming a good person). They acknowledge the existence of spirits without bodies, but don’t really explain why they have power over anything in the material world.

Notice how there’s no approach that really tries to understand what’s between the material and the spiritual world? I’m not aware of anyone who really knows what’s there. None of the common ways of thought seems to address how this works, neither Eastern nor Western. So, when that’s the goal (and it is for me), does it really make a difference where you come from? I know where I want to go, and I know that to get there, I have to seek truth, and not be satisfied with anything less.